Mary hugs her father and other family members

Mary smiling after the decision

The judge did not get specific about the physical visits. He did specify phone calls every other day. This is just for now. The next time we head to court it will be for permanent custody of the children. A date for that has not been set yet.

Thanks to those of you who stayed with me for all 9 hours of the hearing.
I hope you found it useful.
If you have suggestions let me know. I need to get with Blogger and find out the issue with posting pics from my cell. In the future I'll bring my nice digital camera.

We have complete coverage on News Channel 3 on this story and the race for mayor in Memphis.

Don't miss Richard Ransom's "Your Voice, Your Vote" special. Richard sits down one on one with each of the top four candidates for mayor INCLUDING Mayor Herenton. That's Friday night at 7 on your election station.

The Decision

The judge has said Mary Winkler may speak with her children every other day on the telephone and may visit with them under supervised conditions in Carroll County. The Winkler's must let Mary visit with the children by next Saturday.

Dan Winkler says he is not trying to be vindictive against Mary, that he cared about her very much, "One of the greatest tragedies is the loss of a daughter-in-law I loved very much."

The attorney for the Winkler's is done.

Kay Farese Turner is now cross examining Dan Winkler.

Turner, "Did you tell them they could not send pictures of themselves to their mother because she would sell them to the media?"

Winkler, "Absolutely not!"

Mr. Winkler said a counselor did tell them to withold some mail in order to help the children get settled.

Dan Winkler takes the stand

Matthew's father has taken the stand.
Dan says his concern was to take care of the girls and shield them from anymore pain.
He's describing a jail visit between Mary and her daughters, this took place shortly after the murder.
Dan Winkler says he told Mary, "We have not be trying to keep the girls from you, we have been trying to get them ready to see you."
Winkler says Mary started calling often and it often caused the children to have issues including nightmares that often involved people dying. Winkler says that's when he started restricting access.
Dan is now talking about the September 9, 2006 visit between Mary and the kids, the last one they had.

Turner is done. The Winkler's attorney will now do a re-direct of Ablow.
One question is asked and Ablow leaves the stand.

5 Minute Break

This is the last witness.
Kay Farese Turner (in the opinion of those around me) is tearing Dr. Ablow apart. Ablow is a professional witness and admits he hasn't talked to anyone involved in the case. Ablow took files compiled by others and reviewed them and formed his opinion. Ablow does come across as somewhat arrogant and that may not be helping the Winkler's case.

I'm Back

Kay Farese Turner is cross examining Dr. Keith Ablow. Ablow just admitted he wrote a book called "Inside the Mind of Scott Peterson" without ever interviewing or evaluating Peterson. Ablow said he was paid $30,000 to work on the Mary Winkler case. He says the money was paid to him by the Winkler family attorneys.

I've stepped outside to do a live report for News Channel 3 at 6PM

Ablow specializes when psychiatric issues and legal issues meet, such in this case.
Alblow reviewed Mary Winkler's testimony as well as that of Dr. Lynne Zaeger.
He has also reviewed the transcript of the evaluations of the children.

Dr. Keith Ablow

Kennon is off the stand.

Dr. Keith Ablow has taken the stand. Ablow is a forensic psychologist, author and has a TV talk show.

www.drkeith.warnerbros.com

Kennon Cross Examination

Kennon says he was paid $300 per child to examine the Winkler children. Kennon says he spent a total of three hours with the children as a group.
Kay Farese Turner is grilling Kennon. Turner seems to be alleging that Kennon is overstepping his bounds when it comes to his evaluation.

The doctor (Dr. Robert W. Kennon ) says he's only spent three hours with the girls but feels he has a pretty good feel about their situation. He thinks the girls need to have therapeutic meetings with their mother eventually, he doesn't even support supervised visitation with Winkler.

"She killed my father..."

Doctor says Patricia (the oldest daughter) made the statement, "She killed my father, how do I know she won't kill me." He says she is having a difficult time. Doctor says Ally (2nd oldest) is internalizing her issues and that "...She hasn't full dealt with the scope of these issues." Doctor, "I certainly have concerns about custody issues given what I know about Mrs. Winkler."
The doctor says down the line, the girls need to deal with their mother but not right now.

I'm Back in Court

The Winkler psychologist (Dan & Dianne) is still on the stand. His job is to refute what's Mary's doctor said.
He says Mary said some thing on Oprah that weren't true and upset the Winkler family.

Winkler's attorney has rested her case

The Winkler family attorney will now present his case.
They've called a forensic psychologist.

Ciocca is reading from reports from other therapists. At least one of the reports seems to indicate they may be having their opinions toward their mother molded by others, possibly their grandparents.

I have to head downstairs to do a LIVE report for News Channel 3 at 4:30. Some of the comments posted here will be shown during this report.

I'll start posting again a few minutes after I get off air.

George

Mary on the stand earlier

This is a shot of one of our monitors. We are set up in a courtroom next to the one where the hearing is taking place. Mary Winkler was much more outspoken today than previously. WREG.COM is the only Memphis website blogging the hearing now.

G

Ciocca says it's important that children, especially those separated from a parent, not hear negative remarks about said parent. Ciocca has not personally talked with the children. It will be interesting to hear what happens in cross examination.

Some have commented on the length of the breaks. If you've never been to court, let me tell you there's a time warp that happens here.
I hope you're finding the blog useful and I appreciate your comments.
George

Dr. John Ciocca, a clinical psychologist has just taken the stand.
Ciocca is talking about the effect separating parents from children can have on a child.
Ciocca says it can cause major trauma.
As you can imagine, Ciocca is a witness called by Mary's attorney.

5 Minute Recess

I'm going to take this time to update http://www.wreg.com/

Email me with questions or comments

Zaeger Cross Examination

An attorney for the Winkler family is now cross examining Dr. Lynne Zaeger.
The attorney is asking Zaeger what could trigger episodes where Winkler doesn't know what's going on or what she has done. This is what Zaeger says happened when Winkler shot and killed her husband. Zaeger admits you cannot predict whether someone will or will not ever have one of the episodes again.

Zaeger says "I do not believe Mary is a harm to herself or anyone else."
This part of the testimony is very dry and very technical. Zaeger say she has only evaluated Winkler, not treated her. Zaeger says she has talked with Winkler's counselors but that they have not turned over paper record to her. Zaeger, "The level of functioning has increased tremendously. She works a regular job ans shows a lot of independence."

And we're back...

Dr. Lynne Zaeger, a psychologist, has taken the stand. Zaeger has evaluated Mary Winkler numerous times since the murder. Zaeger says she diagnosed Mary with PTSD which she says is linked to the death of Winkler's sister when she was young. Zaeger is being questioned by Winkler's attorney Kay Farese Turner.

We are back in the courthouse

Mary is sitting at her table and everyone is assembling in the courtroom.
We should be getting started soon.
The opinion of many is Mary's attorney is doing a much better job than the Winkler's attorney.
It's very likely this will go on through late afternoon.

We're sitting at Mallards, a restaurant on the court square. As I sit at my table, Mary is standing across the street smoking outside a store called PDC. Mary has her hand on her hip and is with her attorneys, another girl and a police officer. The officer, I assume, is accompanying Mary as a sort of bodyguard. Someone from the town is snapping pics of Mary as she sits and smokes.

Someone asked earlier if Mary had been asked if she still goes to church and if the children would be taken to church.
The answer is No, that did not come up.

Lunch

Everyone is breaking for lunch.

If you'd like, we can use this as a time to chat about what's happened so far or about other things related to Mary.

So far it seems to be pretty even as far as questions and answers go. Mary is a lot more forceful on this stand than she was the stand during her murder trial.

Mary is off the stand

Mary is listing the medicines she is currently taking to control her depression and other medical conditions. She says the Winkler family never has acknowledged the abuse she says she suffered while married to Matthew.

Mary is off the stand

Mary's father in the courtroom

Cross is over

Jake Adams Jr. has wrapped up his cross examination of Mary Winkler.

Now Kay Farese Turner (Winkler's attorney) is asking her client more questions.

Side Bar

Feel free to comment after an posts on this blog, we want to know what you think.
George

The Boyfriend

Jake Adams Jr. is asking whether Mary Winkler has had a boyfriend since she left treatment. Winkler says she did not. Winkler's attorney objects but the judge allows it. Mary know says she did have a relationship with Darrell Pillow and it started early Spring of 2007. Mary says she did talk about marriage with Mr. Pillow but only in passing and in August she decided she needed to focus on herself and her children.

Winkler says she was last examined yesterday and feels confident she can raise her daughters.

Mary is being asked why Mary (if she and the kids were abused) never called anyone for help. It would appear the attorney is trying to paint her as someone who did not watch over her children and protect them.

Mary Winkler: "At that moment, when you're in that situation, you survive and do the best you can. You think you can't get help and no one will believe you."

We're back

Mary is still being cross examined.

The attorney for the Winkler's just asked whether appearing on Oprah was good for her children.

Mary's attorney objects, the judge sustains.

Court During the Recess

Comments-5 MINUTE BREAK

Let us know what you think.
News Channel 3 wants to know what you think.

Adams Jr. is asking why Mary would be surprised that her daughers were made at her considering she had shot their father to death. Mary says she does understand and that the family needs to be together to heal together.

I should clarify Mary was diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome after the murder and told that it started when she was a child and her sister died.

This part is moving slow.

The Winkler's attorney is now questioning Mary

An attorney for the Winkler's (Jake Adams Jr.) is now cross examining Mary.
Adams says Mary made no decisions without Matthew's opinion. He's now talking about the murder and that Mary suffers from post traumatic stress disorder.

Winkler says she is doing well these days, has received treatment and is taking medication. Mary says she feels she is competent to watch over her children.

At times, the questions Adams Jr. is asking are almost funny.

Friends to the rescue

Mary says she rents a home for $150. Mary describes the house and it sounds very nice with lots of room. Mary says a friend bought the house and rents it to her for that very affordable price. Someone has given her a car, that she gets free oil changes and medication. It sounds like a lot of people have rallied around her.

Mary is talking about the psychological treatment she has received since the murder. Mary says she lived in a group home and twice a week she would go to off property treatment. She also saw a psychiatrist twice a month and worked with a case worker.

Winkler says she is confident and competent to have custody of her children and she hopes the two families can come together. Mary would like to have the girls from Friday night to Sunday night.

Mary is asking to see the children today.

Side Note: Mayor's Press Conference

We have a Side Bar going on.
Pardon me as I do double duty here.
On our homepage at www.wreg.com you can watch Mayor Herenton's press conference LIVE. The mayor is expected to ask for early voting to be haulted because of possible problems with voting machines. Mike Matthews is covering this story for us. Right now we're waiting for the mayor.
You can also was the presser live on News Channel 3 Anytime on Comcast Cable

Dr. Keith Ablow

Dr. Keith Ablow is in the court building. Ablow is a psychiatrist who evaluated Mary Winkler's children. Ablow also has his own talk show and has publicly said he doesn't think Winkler got a tough enough sentence.

Mary said when she called on March 9, 2007 (Brianna's 2nd Birthday)the Winkler's told her she couldn't speak with the girls, should not call back and not to send anymore packages or mail.

Mary says one of the girls fractured her arm but she was not told.
Mary also says there was a car accident involving the girls but did not elaborate.

Winkler says her family was also cut off from seeing or speaking to the children. Mary says this happened in October, 2006 after an article in a magazine about the murder. The article talked about possible abuse in the marriage. Mary feels this made the Winkler's mad and they were punishing her and her family.

A little blurry but...Mary is still on the stand

Mary Winkler said she was denied access to the children on birthdays and Christmas.
Winkler suspected the mail and packages she was sending to the girls were not reaching them. She says Dan Winkler (Matthew's father) told Mary he and his wife would decide what the kids would and would not receive.


Mary said one time Patricia got on the phone and was fine for a minute but then broke down crying. Dan supposedly told Mary that Patricia was mad at her mother and that she was seeing a counselor.

Mary is now looking at cell phone records. I assume this is to prove that she did in-fact have contact with the girls and did continue to try and have contact even when phone calls were not answered.

SIDE BAR

Mary said she was allowed to see the girls September 9, 2006 at the Winkler family home. She had to go alone inside the room where the girls where and she couldn't bring a camera with her.
She said there were two people sitting back and watching as she interacted with the girls.
Mary says the visit went well but that later the Winkler's accused of telling the girls that "I didn't do it."

Mary was allowed to call every other Tuesday at 6:30. If Tuesday night didn't work then Thursday would be susbstituted.
Mr. Winkler (according to Mary) asked that Mary not write so much because each letter to the girls was "like a knife to the heart."

Mary is talking about an encounter with Matthew Winkler's parents after the killing. Mary says she asked to see Matthew's mother in jail and that when his mother showed up there was a "clear sign of hatred" for Mary. She says she knows the Winkler's are taking care of her kids.

Mary says she immediately started trying to get her children back when she was released from jail in September, 2006.

Mary says she hasn't seen her children since Sept. 9, 2006.
Mary says at the time, Brianna was just using baby talk, she's almost two now.
Mary says she was the person the kids came to when they needed to talk.

Mary Winkler on the stand

Mary Winkler is being asked the background of her family, who was the main support for the three Winkler children etc.
Mary Winkler says she took care of the children, got them to school, to church.
She's now describing her children and their personalities.
She says Patricia is very bubbly, outgoing.
Ally is a momma's girl and that she was premature.

EXCLUSIVE: Mary on the stand

Kay Farese Turner (Winkler's attorney) is talking about the motions she has filed.
Witness that are to testify have been asked to leave the courtroom while motions are heard.
Mary Winkler is taking the stand

Here we go

Court has started. Mary Winkler's attorney is speaking to the judge.

Still waiting

We're told Mary is in a conference but should arrive to the courtroom in a few minutes.
It's crazy as the media are all crammed into a tiny hallway waiting to get the one shot of Mary walking in.

10:00

Good morning!
We are waiting for Mary to enter the courtroom.

Mary Winkler Custody Hearing

Mary Winkler will be in court in hopes of regaining full custody of her children or at least the chance to see them more often. I'll start blogging from the Carroll County Courthouse Wednesday at 10:00 AM.
George

Oprah wraps up.
Logging off to get to the set and go on air.
Hope you found this blog useful!
George
george.brown@wreg.com

Residents of McMinnville give varying reactions to Mary Winkler's sentence.
Lisa Bloom of Court TV thinks Winkler should be slowly reintroduced to her children.

Leslie Ballin says he took the case because Mary needed help.

Steve Farese says Mary Winkler's testimony is what got her a lenient sentence.

I'll be live at 5 and 6 with more on this blog, our poll and I want you to send me emails about your reaction to the show.
george.brown@wreg.com

ALSO, News Channel 3 is LIVE in McMinnville with reaction there!
wreg.com has more coverage including our archive of video and stories.

Oprah is now talking with guests in a live audience about Winkler.
Lisa Bloom of Court TV (a tv host and attorney) was surprised about the verdict.
She says this was a community that backed Winkler.

Bloom, "In that small town, people believed she was humiliated."

Oprah says the audience gasped when they saw the stripper shoe.

Leslie Ballin and Steve Farese are now talking. Farese says there will be a hearing September 19 to decide when and if Winkler will see her kids again.

Oprah, "What do you want to say to the Winklers, afterakll you killed their son."

Winkler, "I still long to sit and talk with them. I told them I was sorry. I pray for them every morning that they have peace and a good day."

Oprah says Winkler's parents were invited but refused to appear on the show.

Mary, "I love Matthew. It was very bad but it could be very good."

Mary, "I'm just finding who I am."

Winkler says she never thought about killing Matthew, that she was too dependent on him.

Oprah talks about the fact that Mary spent one hour with Matthews body at the funeral home.

On whether Mary thinks she served enough time, I was ready for them to lock the door and throw away the key."

Mary, "He was bleeding and it was just instinct to wipe off the blood."

Mary, "When you actually see somebody who has just died they change appearance in a matter of seconds."

Winkler seems to be fairly wishy, washy about a lot of facts. That is pretty consistent with the trial and her previous testimony.

Winkler said she first took off with her girls towards Memphis but ended up in Mississippi. She said she wanted to have a good time with the girls before handing them over Matthew Winkler's parents.

Commercial
It alsmost sounds like Oprah will skip the trial and go right to the custody battle.

Mary, "I just thought it would hit the ceiling, the window."

Winkler says she ran out of the room for a minute.

Mary, "I just had to go back in and face the realization"

Oprah teases to the next break.

Winkler say she was just so afraid.
Oprah, "You chose to speak to him by getting the gun?"

Winkler says she wanted to tell her husband to stop being mean, to relax and enjoy life.

Oprah, "With the shotgun?"

Today when I think back, 'I ask what in the world happened and how did it happen?'

Winkler, "I don't know if it was to intimidate him or get his attention"

March 22, 2006 the morning of the murder.
Oprah recounts what led up to the shooting that morning.
"There was that awful sound. My first reaction was I ran."

Oprah, "You have to hold up here." Oprah wants Mary to fill in the void in time and how she came to have the gun in her hand.

Oprah, "What had he said to you about the baby?"
Winkler, "That she needed to shut up and not cry."

Mary says she doesn't remember getting the shot gun.

Mary, "I was just so afraid of him."

oprah is showing video of the Winkler home in Selmer and talking about the morning of the murder.

Mary says Matthew was trying to suffocate Brianna, the baby because she was crying. She says Matthew didn't mean to kill her, just make her pass out and go to sleep.

Oprah teases to the next segment with what the gun sounded like when it went off.

Commercial Break.

Now we're into the money scam.

Mary says it's not all true. Winkler says Matthew was over all money and that they both had been scammed and that they were in dire straits for some time.

Oprah, "Do you regret you didn't stand up for yourself."
Mary, "Oh my, yes."

One thing I've noticed is Mary keeps saying she failed Matthew.

We're back.

Oprah's asking about the shoes and wig.
Now they're showing a clip from court where Mary talks about Matthew making her wear stripper shoes and wigs for sex.
Mary says she was forced to do things in the bedroom she did not want to do.
Oprah asks her what?
There's about 10 seconds of dead silence.
Oprah elaborates on the clothes, anal sex etc.

First Commercial with a tantalizing tease!

Oprha, "Did you ever say to him I'm worn out, this is too much, what can I do"
Mary, "I'll always feel I failed Matthew by not telling him how bad it was."

Oprah, "Did you ever think he would hurt you?"
Winkler says at least on one occasion, yes.

Oprah's using a Good Morning America clip of Mary's dad talking about a nasty bruise she had one time and how she tried to cover it with thick make-up.

Mary talks about asking Matthew for a divorce but it wasn't an option.

Winkler says there wasn't one thing in particular that would set her husband off. Her weight, hair, the kids all set him off.
Oprah wants to know how his public persona varied from the private persona.
Charismatic in public but at home "he'd lose control."

Mary says after she murdered Matthew more and more people have said they saw his bad temper.

Winkler says she, "focuses on keeping him happy, help him and stare clear" to avoid getting hit.

Mary is talking about how hard it was to live with Matthew. She says his personality flipped and that he yelled a lot. Mary seems much more alive and better spoken than I've ever seen her. She's gone from meek little mouse to average person.

Oprah asks why Mary is speaking with her.
Mary says she can't sit back and do nothing if there's a chance she can help someone else. Mary doesn't elaborate.
I have to say she looks better than I've ever seen her. Her clothes are conservative but she has a decent amount of make-up on.

The show

Oprah starts by giving a brief summary of what happened. Behind her are four pictures. one is a coffin, two others family pics and the final is Mary in an orange jumpsuit.

Here we go

I've covered the Mary Winkler case since it began so I'll try and offer some insight as the show goes on and during commercials. Feel free to ask questions.
George

Why I'm blogging

I'll be watching Oprah today and blogging right here. We know many of you are at work and can't watch the show, so I'll watch it for you. On News Channel 3 at 5 and 6 we'll have LIVE coverage from McMinnville, TN where Mary Winkler now lives and works. The blog will start just before 4.
George